Manga da is good but…

White Borneo for me definitely comes a close second. It’s much cheaper and often referred to as the poor mans mang da. I have 7 damaged discs, I used to have 4 broken verterbre among other issues and was bound to a docs office and pain meds. When that got out Hand and was tiredness of going Ron a doc every month I researched but natural alternatives and this fit the bill! I’m med free and doc free. The white Borneo works great for pain relief and muscle spasms. Again just my experience but I’d love to hear others love to hea

@'Krat0mL1fe':

White Borneo for me definitely comes a close second. It’s much cheaper and often referred to as the poor mans mang da. I have 7 damaged discs, I used to have 4 broken verterbre among other issues and was bound to a docs office and pain meds. When that got out Hand and was tiredness of going Ron a doc every month I researched but natural alternatives and this fit the bill! I’m med free and doc free. The white Borneo works great for pain relief and muscle spasms. Again just my experience but I’d love to hear others love to hea

Hello, krat0mL1fe, & welcome to the forum  :shy:

When I first found kratom it was for back pain, actually shooting burning jabbing pain down my right leg, which became increasingly more severe. The docs finally, after repeated requests on my part, ordered an x-ray. Turns out my back was broken & I had almost no disc left at L-5. I was using a Super Green Bali & Green Malay at that time. That got me thru my spine surgery & recovery beautifully. Now I use it for crippling anxiety, the kind of anxiety that literally paralyzes me. So, my favorites are; Red Vein Indo (RVI), Jade Malay, Super Green Bali (still!) &, this is an odd choice for me, Orange Vein Maeng da (OVMD). I also rotate Red Malay, Red Sunda & several others thru but the top 4 are my favorites.

I use primarily for sleep..sometimes it is almost impossible to relax and shut down and then get back to work in sometimes 6 hours. Potent red indo is very relaxing but does not make me sleep as much as I lay in bed and am just relaxed with wandering easy thoughts…probably better for movie night after a stressful day the only drawback is a slight headache. The red bali and sunda work well for me to sleep, not knocked out ...when i wake up in the middle of the night I just yawn and roll over and back to sleep and it also eases those pains that we all get. Have been trying some green for performance on long late nights at work when I have to be sharp without a edge. I have heard good things about red hulu....any thoughts

Personally, I've never been a big fan of Maeng Da (although I agree with Itzatwist that a partcular vendor with Orange Vein MD is superb). Sometimes, less popular strains can surprise you. My surprise strain was Green Riau. Really a good, middle of the road strain that is perfect for day or night. As it's been said many times, you need to sample, sample, sample. Don't let flashy or popular names draw you in…..an open mind can lead to some quality finds. And contrary to what some people claim, "fresh" is an over-rated term as well. One of the best vendors out there is still using inventory he acquired in 2011. I'm sure several here know who I'm talking about too....

@'Bizaro22':

Personally, I've never been a big fan of Maeng Da (although I agree with Itzatwist that a partcular vendor with Orange Vein MD is superb). Sometimes, less popular strains can surprise you. My surprise strain was Green Riau. Really a good, middle of the road strain that is perfect for day or night. As it's been said many times, you need to sample, sample, sample. Don't let flashy or popular names draw you in…..an open mind can lead to some quality finds. And contrary to what some people claim, "fresh" is an over-rated term as well. One of the best vendors out there is still using inventory he acquired in 2011. I'm sure several here know who I'm talking about too....

Totally disagree fresh means a lot, yes Kratom will hold it potency for many many years but there is a big difference from Kratom that is 2 weeks to a month old and a 6 year old one. The thing is if you are not there to sample new fresh Kratom and you get a hold of decent Kratom that is 5 years old then what?
It's the same with fresh picked corn, within a hour of corn being picked it begins loosing the sugar content big time. If you want to check next season pick some corn and boil it immediately and you will see. The same with Kratom but most folks that use Kratom probably have never had fresh Kratom. I will tell you this if you ever sample my Kratom you would have so many Wows and in the back of your mind you might think it was spiked with something. But I swear not only is my Kratom just Kratom I have the lab that backs it up. Actually it's one of the reasons not the main one but for sure one of them I had my Kratom tested. Folks actually thought something was added to it and it's really because it's super freshed , dried out of the sun and very carefully processed with no heavy metals etc. A lot of Kratom is put on racks made of metal they rust etc lots of stuff can happen.

So just be careful on how you framed certain things. I been in the business for over 7 years, I know more about Kratom than many and make my living selling to only people I know and I do very well simply because I always have the best and my clients know it so they pay whatever it costs which I think is very reasonable for what they get and they don't go away.

Randy, I think you're slowly becoming the Marcia to my Jan Brady. But seriously….thank you for always being there to correct me when I go astray. Per your instruction, I'll make sure I'm careful on how I frame things in the future. Basement vendors are just so rare that I've never had the luxury of learning from one before.
😄

@'Krat0mL1fe':

White Borneo for me definitely comes a close second. It’s much cheaper and often referred to as the poor mans mang da. I have 7 damaged discs, I used to have 4 broken verterbre among other issues and was bound to a docs office and pain meds. When that got out Hand and was tiredness of going Ron a doc every month I researched but natural alternatives and this fit the bill! I’m med free and doc free. The white Borneo works great for pain relief and muscle spasms. Again just my experience but I’d love to hear others love to hea

Welcome krat0ml1fe. I remember hearing the phrase “poor mans maeng da” years ago from a YouTube vendor. Lol. “Cheap” ring a bell? He was one of my first vendors if I’m on it. This was many years ago. This guy sold a malay maeng da. Uplifting and energetic.

Maeng das don’t do much for me. Unsure why. A true maeng da is involved. I believe farmers actually it trees in half then join/fuse 2 different strains together. Once the 2 trees fuse they create MD. I doubt most labeled MDs are true MD.. maybe MDs don’t do much Because most of them are just another Borneo or indo labeled as MD.. just a thought

@'Bizaro22':

Randy, I think you're slowly becoming the Marcia to my Jan Brady. But seriously….thank you for always being there to correct me when I go astray. Per your instruction, I'll make sure I'm careful on how I frame things in the future. Basement vendors are just so rare that I've never had the luxury of learning from one before.
😄

Lol Don't knock the basement, it's where all good experimentation can take place. But you have to agree just because a Vendor has potent Kratom after 6 years has nothing to do with nice fresh Kratom just processed! What it has to do is never had the chance to try real fresh Kratom!
It's true Vendors such as I are very rare. I don't need more customers, I personally know each and every customer. I  spend maybe a couple hours a day with my work and I make what a good skilled tradesman makes  but I make it is a couple of hours not 8 or 10 per day.

I certainly could grow and be bigger but why? I don't need a new Jag or vette or another house.  What I need I have and if not I get.
What I was in need for was a new puppy. My Lassie boy of 12 years died 2 months ago so I found another rough Collie from a breeder.
They are beautiful dogs and sort of rare around here. But I can't tell you how good it feels to be able to afford and get one when I needed one and pay for everything not thinking twice. I love what I do because I simply help people and in helping people it helps me. A real win-win.
Don't worry Biz if you good and nice you might just get a sample of real fresh Kratom 🙂

While I might agree with you in some ways with the fresh is better it might be a apples and oranges comparison or in this case corn and kratom…a fresh tobacco leaf is harsh and the nicotine content is actually lower than a aged and properly cured leaf. The nicotine content actually forms a more complex matrix to some extent and can end with the nicotine being more bioavailable and the flavor profile less harsh. I could carry this example to many botanicals including cocoa beans and as far as wine grapes and wine as a whole. Add this to the science that UV and air exposure actually may benefit the alkaloid conversion to higher 7-OH and others that show that actually having the leaves fermented like an expensive cigar leaf may actually have more pain relief AND LOWER the bodies building a tolerance. Fresh may not be all its cracked up to be 😉

@'TheAegis':

While I might agree with you in some ways with the fresh is better it might be a apples and oranges comparison or in this case corn and kratom…a fresh tobacco leaf is harsh and the nicotine content is actually lower than a aged and properly cured leaf. The nicotine content actually forms a more complex matrix to some extent and can end with the nicotine being more bioavailable and the flavor profile less harsh. I could carry this example to many botanicals including cocoa beans and as far as wine grapes and wine as a whole. Add this to the science that UV and air exposure actually may benefit the alkaloid conversion to higher 7-OH and others that show that actually having the leaves fermented like an expensive cigar leaf may actually have more pain relief AND LOWER the bodies building a tolerance. Fresh may not be all its cracked up to be 😉

True fresh in many cases does not mean a higher potency but I'm speaking only about Kratom here. Honestly you simply won't know what I am saying unless you get a good grade of Kratom and it's fresh and sample it and then try the same Kratom even a year or more later that is also sealed properly. then you will see beyond that I can tell you no more.

Randy have you got a chance to the trees in person? More you can share the better.

@'will':

Randy have you got a chance to the trees in person? More you can share the better.

years ago I took a trip to Indonesia but only spent a short amount of time in areas of growth such as jong kong, Kapausas etc.
I went there to find the best farmer, processor I could find and luckily found a couple actually. Jong Kong really impressed me to see these very fertile trees sunken in water and doing great!

@'randy1953':

@'TheAegis':

While I might agree with you in some ways with the fresh is better it might be a apples and oranges comparison or in this case corn and kratom…a fresh tobacco leaf is harsh and the nicotine content is actually lower than a aged and properly cured leaf. The nicotine content actually forms a more complex matrix to some extent and can end with the nicotine being more bioavailable and the flavor profile less harsh. I could carry this example to many botanicals including cocoa beans and as far as wine grapes and wine as a whole. Add this to the science that UV and air exposure actually may benefit the alkaloid conversion to higher 7-OH and others that show that actually having the leaves fermented like an expensive cigar leaf may actually have more pain relief AND LOWER the bodies building a tolerance. Fresh may not be all its cracked up to be 😉

True fresh in many cases does not mean a higher potency but I'm speaking only about Kratom here. Honestly you simply won't know what I am saying unless you get a good grade of Kratom and it's fresh and sample it and then try the same Kratom even a year or more later that is also sealed properly. then you will see beyond that I can tell you no more.

Ahhh…but YOU compare to corn and sugar content..but when I compare to another botanical leaf you say we are talking kratom...you are talking a personal perception and presenting as fact. I present scientific research on the kratom leaf and how its akaloids develop and oxydise over time and handling...I would be more curious if what you say is true....why since you have stated you test your kratom....why you would not have test results of that batch fresh and then a year later...that would be more of a starter for me than ohhh you wouldnt understand until you've had fresh.

@'TheAegis':

Ahhh…but YOU compare to corn and sugar content..but when I compare to another botanical leaf you say we are talking kratom...you are talking a personal perception and presenting as fact. I present scientific research on the kratom leaf and how its akaloids develop and oxydise over time and handling...I would be more curious if what you say is true....why since you have stated you test your kratom....why you would not have test results of that batch fresh and then a year later...that would be more of a starter for me than ohhh you wouldnt understand until you've had fresh.

Lol I don't need test results, besides all that what sell is always fresh and my Kratom stays around maybe a month till the new batch comes in.
I have no desire nor need to have some Kratom left around for years so I can test it. There's nothing for me to prove. I know what I have, I know how it works.
By far the best way to test Kratom is to sample it. Also something important that you probably don't know which is out of the 15 or more alakloids that are in Kratom you do know that 2 interact with your opiate receptors. Can you honestly tell me what exactly the other 13 do? I can tell you about some, some are there to decrease your tolerance, some are there that will adjust the rate of delivery. It's a very complex world when it comes to Kratom, so quoting a posting about 1 7OH alkaloid is almost meaningless. They(all the alkaloids) work togther to .
yield you the full effect of that Kratom. To have the best you first need to find what works
Also as I said I don't give much credence to that little report you posted. I knew about that one years ago but never made any sense to me because I know that the potency is increased with dried out of the sun. I'm old school I am only interested in results that can be felt and known not what it might say on a piece of paper.
Remember it's simple the proof is in the pudding if you are lucky enough to have that, you need nothing else.

@'randy1953':

Lol I don't need test results, besides all that what sell is always fresh and my Kratom stays around maybe a month till the new batch comes in.
I have no desire nor need to have some Kratom left around for years so I can test it. There's nothing for me to prove. I know what I have, I know how it works.
By far the best way to test Kratom is to sample it. Also something important that you probably don't know which is out of the 15 or more alakloids that are in Kratom you do know that 2 interact with your opiate receptors.  Can you honestly tell me what exactly the other 13 do? I can tell you about some, some are there to decrease your tolerance, some are there that will adjust the rate of delivery. It's a very complex world when it comes to Kratom, so quoting a posting about 1 7OH alkaloid is almost meaningless. They(all the alkaloids) work togther to .
yield you the full effect of that Kratom. To have the best you first need to find what works
Also as I said I don't give much credence to that little report you posted. I knew about that one years ago but never made any sense to me because I know that the potency is increased with dried out of the sun. I'm old school I am only interested in results that can be felt and known not what it might say on a piece of paper.
Remember it's simple the proof is in the pudding if you are lucky enough to have that, you need nothing else.

7-oh is the second most prevalent alkaloid found in kratom 7-hydroxymitragynine AND a terpoid which is very interesting. There are actually 25 known compounds in kratom not 15. While many things are subjective ignoring the science of what you sell should not be. To dismiss the science is foolish. I can direct you to a website that insists the world is flat and static because they cannot "feel" us moving through space or the earths rotation, yet can feel the acceleration of a car. What you feel is important but science is what may pull your vendor job out of the fire. Feel free to dismiss me because my experience is not in sales but eclipses yours. I do not have to be a used car salesman to tune the engine of my racecar.

I guess we're just super lucky that you came along Randy. I always wanted to meet the person who has the BEST Kratom. I mean, I've never heard any basement vendor claim that before. You've got the best AND most fresh Kratom, plus you know more about the plant than anyone else. Personally, I'm just feeling lucky to be on the same forum as you. I mean what are the odds of finding the one guy who actually has the best and FRESHEST Kratom?? I'm living the dream right now…..lol!

So true Biz. I go on twitter to do advocavy and 10% of the people following are indo farmers assuring me they have the best and freshest. Then another 10% are vendors assuring me if I let my followers know they have the best at the best prices. All I need to complete the triad is rehab corporations telling me to let my followers know they have medicare and insurance pricing (it happens) at no cost to the customer. Nobody says " I have the lowest prices.. quality is just ok, no testing but I pass the savings on to you!"

@'RoninAdvocacy':

7-oh is the second most prevalent alkaloid found in kratom 7-hydroxymitragynine AND a terpoid which is very interesting. There are actually 25 known compounds in kratom not 15. While many things are subjective ignoring the science of what you sell should not be. To dismiss the science is foolish. I can direct you to a website that insists the world is flat and static because they cannot "feel" us moving through space or the earths rotation, yet can feel the acceleration of a car. What you feel is important but science is what may pull your vendor job out of the fire. Feel free to dismiss me because my experience is not in sales but eclipses yours. I do not have to be a used car salesman to tune the engine of my racecar.

It has very little effect..I never seen 25 but you know thats the way it goes crazy and it will keep growing, people will still be dumb and fooled unless they have a paper telling them how they should feel according to science then they will be ok lol


@'Bizaro22':

I guess we're just super lucky that you came along Randy. I always wanted to meet the person who has the BEST Kratom. I mean, I've never heard any basement vendor claim that before. You've got the best AND most fresh Kratom, plus you know more about the plant than anyone else. Personally, I'm just feeling lucky to be on the same forum as you. I mean what are the odds of finding the one guy who actually has the FRESH Kratom?? I'm living the dream right now…..lol!

Dumb

@'RoninAdvocacy':

So true Biz. I go on twitter to do advocavy and 10% of the people following are indo farmers assuring me they have the best and freshest. Then another 10% are vendors assuring me if I let my followers know they have the best at the best prices. All I need to complete the triad is rehab corporations telling me to let my followers know they have medicare and insurance pricing (it happens) at no cost to the customer. Nobody says " I have the lowest prices.. quality is just ok, no testing but I pass the savings on to you!"

Sad but true this is why most folks will never do well in the Kratom business, to get the best Kratom you go through so much that most will quit. It's really that simple. If selling Kratom was easy everyone would do it and make $$$$.
I'm very lucky, my customers have stayed with me for years lost only one(he died) Well it's not all luck you see I don't work with anything but the best and it takes time to find where it is. If you just want average Kratom any Indo farmer will sell you a kg for $40 and include EMS express shipping even! Think of it you spend $400 with EE shipping which means you get your product normally in 8 days how easy can that be right.
But wait what is it your getting, Oh just some average Kratom that doesn't do much but hey I saved a bit from spending $100 a kg online so your happy if that's what you want go for it.
However when you have the best with top quality guess what you find that now your Kratom has very long legs, you find folks use maybe half as much, and you find everyone wants it! And that's just the way it is. It's why I don't allow my customer base to go over 40 simply because then you get into a supply problem because again everyone wants what you have.
What you don't know is it took a very long time to get to certain Kratom framers/vendors and finding such Kratom is like a needle in a haystack but for me it's well worth it.
Price has little to do with it, when you have the best you charge what you want and people will pay, however for what my customers get they probably pay half or less than what they would pay in a smoke shop(not head shop)
So members like Biz can joke all he wants, to be it's just a good contented smile for I know how every well I do in such a basement vendor.
As a matter of fact just a week ago I was speaking to one of the owners of The Kratom Syndicate, I was a bit surprised that I actually make more money per month that he does!
It works if you work it that's all I can say!

You miss my thrust,even when you bleed. I can without exageration pull screen shots from many vendors stating they have the best kratom and the freshest. I can quickly produce even more kratom indo suppliers who assure me the have only the finest superior fresh kratom. The strange thing is they have whatever strain and color from whatever varietal or district i could possibly want…ask a random indo supplier if they have purple swoo bali and some will assure you they can supply you. You need to inspect your farms and test, if you cannot inspect frequently you need to test more often. One thing a "dealer" will always say they have the "good shit". Are you a dealer or a vendor and advocate?

@'RoninAdvocacy':

One thing a "dealer" will always say they have the "good shit". Are you a dealer or a vendor and advocate?

Aaaaand…..mic drop!

Just having some good-natured fun with you Randy, I'm sure you're a decent guy, but Ronin's point is valid. We're not customers so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning your "special" Kratom, how well you're doing, etc. It makes you sound like a "street dealer" or used car salesman. Like itzatwist said earlier…..know your audience. I fully appreciate your opinions, but don't try to educate the educated.

@'RoninAdvocacy':

You miss my thrust,even when you bleed. I can without exageration pull screen shots from many vendors stating they have the best kratom and the freshest. I can quickly produce even more kratom indo suppliers who assure me the have only the finest superior fresh kratom. The strange thing is they have whatever strain and color from whatever varietal or district i could possibly want…ask a random indo supplier if they have purple swoo bali and some will assure you they can supply you. You need to inspect your farms and test, if you cannot inspect frequently you need to test more often. One thing a "dealer" will always say they have the "good shit". Are you a dealer or a vendor and advocate?

I really don't care a bit about all that, why would any of that matter to me. The quality and consistency of my Kratom has not changed a bit in 4 years! I deal with the same folks and I always get the same quality and my customers love me. Your talking crazy there is not a need to go back and indo and inspect the same farm that you chose to be your supplier. And especially over the years you get to know your supplier inside out it's like family. The difference from suppliers making all these claims is very few can ever produce what they claim, a few can and when you find one it's like gold and you hold on to it just like you would with anything in life that you love and inspires you.
Personally I think it's human nature to become jealous of someone that has truly made it in the Kratom business and is doing it with only 40 customers!
Each new batch I get goes to Wonderland and is checked, the quality, the % of the alakloids etc has changed so marginally its not even worthy of note. You know that the majority of Vendors out there have never ever tested what they are selling, never! I'm talking about companies that sell millions a years! Again this is another reason the FDA wants in there is absolutely
under the law or really no law to have any policing done on what you are selling so most vendors simply sell and god forbids something bad happens, if it does you just don't see that company anymore and they open up a new company.
With me it's different if the FDA ever came to me and told me you have nop idea what in that Kratom or if it's really Kratom I just smile and show them my C of A.
So like I say I could careless what other vendors are saying, it's a free country they can say whatever they want to say.

@'Bizaro22':

Just having some good-natured fun with you Randy, I'm sure you're a decent guy, but Ronin's point is valid. We're not customers so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning your "special" Kratom, how well you're doing, etc. It makes you sound like a "street dealer" or used car salesman. Like itzatwist said earlier…..know your audience. I fully appreciate your opinions, but don't try to educate the educated.

Well should I lie and say I'm doing horrible, or say well my Kratom is just average.
I'm very proud of what I have created. It took  a lot of hard work and effort to find the connections and then to bring my product to the public. You will also hear me say I don't need any new customers and I'm not here to sell anything.
What I do wish is many more vendors would simply follow my example what a wonderful world it would be.
Just think if every vendor personally knew each they sold to, there to work with each person if needed and help wouldn't that be great!

My most notable achievement has to do with helping 2 hardcore opiate addicts get and stay clean one is 4 years clean, the other 2 years now. It just doesn't happen because you give them some Kratom and say try this! You need to know your Kratom inside and out, you need to know exactly what each strain does and most of all you have to have the best Kratom available because if the person needs a good red at night it better do what a red does or it won't work.
The reason why I may look like a street dealer etc to you is a projection of yourself from the place you are looking from. IOW's you create that reality.

@'randy1953':

It has very little effect..I never seen 25 but you know thats the way it goes crazy and it will keep growing, people will still be dumb and fooled unless they have a paper telling them how they should feel according to science then they will be ok lol


Dumb

7-OH has very little effect..the primary alkaloid responsible for pain relief in the red veins you talk about…the second most prevalent in ALL kratom..while kratom is a complex and synergistic botanical even the most uneducated troll........no more words....really? Really? Now you are just pulling my chain  randy.