Kratom Vein Colors


  • administrator

    The Colors of Kratom
    Kratom is generally divided into three different colors. Red-vein, Green-vein or White-vein. The colors are determined by the color of the central vein of the leaf & the stem. If you look closely at a kratom leaf you will see that the central vein, as well as the stem, have a certain color. Generally, this color helps to determine the effect the kratom leaf will have. Each color causes a different effect due to their own unique alkaloid profiles.
    The colors of the different kratom strains thrive at their best in differing conditions and contain various alkaloids that come together to form their own unique alkaloid profile which produces their own unique effect.

    Red Vein Kratom
    Red Vein Kratom leaves have red colored central vein & stem. Red is the best selling and most widely available strain of kratom on the market. Red is sold more than the Green and White vein combined. The Red vein kratom plant grows abundantly in Southeast Asia and is slightly more persistent than other Mitragyna Speciosa trees. Some studies claim that the substances that give rise to the red color of the veins also ensure that the plant is less susceptible to external factors.
    Red vein kratom from a trusted source is great for beginners because Reds are reported to be the most well-tolerated strains. Reds produce pleasant calming effects, pain relief & act as an anxiolytic as well as general peace of mind and a feeling of well-being and optimism. In addition, Red is suitable as a sleep aid for insomnia. Physically, Red is known to relax the body and relieve pain. It relaxes the muscles and can be used as a supplement or replacement for Rx painkillers. 
    Within the Red vein kratoms, there are considerable variations in the effects and properties. As with the Greens & Whites, the effects of a Red depend on the dose but overall Reds are used to alleviate pain, as an anxiolytic & sleep.

    Green Vein Kratom
    Green Vein Kratom can best be described as 'middle of the road' or 'the moderator' because it is somewhere between Red veins & White veins. It is a mild energy booster with pain relief & mood enhancing.
    People report that it helps them to enhance alertness and focus. Greens are more subtle than Reds or Whites. In general, they can be useful to alleviate pain and other discomforts, precisely because Greens do not lead to drowsiness, which is often caused by other analgesic supplements.
    Greens can be mixed with Reds or Whites to create a more rounded flavor with a more sophisticated effect. When properly mixed it prevents the excessive relaxation of a Red and the overstimulation of a White.
    Due to the balanced functioning Greens are often used for pain relief during the daytime as well as a mood uplift & social anxiety.

    White Vein Kratom
    White vein kratom is known as a stimulant and positive mood enhancer. The effect of each strain off course depends on numerous factors such as the quality of the product, lifestyle and tolerance level of the individual. However, the trend is that Whites are the most stimulating. White kratom is increasingly taken instead of coffee (caffeine) for alertness, concentration, and mood uplift. Some take white kratom for increased concentration, motivation and stamina during long working days.
    For those who experience gloomy periods or at times feel exhausted experience the best results when using this strain of kratom. It is advisable not to use this too late in the day as it can lead to problems sleeping. It is common to mix some White with a Red (or even a Green) in order to achieve a more balanced boost in energy.

    Red, Green or White kratom?
    Which kind of kratom is most appropriate for you depends on your personal preferences and the situation you're in. With kratom, this can be quite complicated because the effects can vary. It depends on quality, location, climate, harvesting method etc. Not all Reds will have the same results and this also applies to the Greens and Whites.
    The characteristics described can best be considered as general guidelines for each kratom color. A great way to determine which kratom strain is best for you is to order kratom sample packs. By sampling different colors as well as strains you can find out for yourself what color and strain is most suitable for your needs.

    Other Colors?
    Yes, you will see and hear of other colors but these colors are not determined by the color of the central vein & stem. I will leave these newer colors for someone else to contribute.

    Any questions, thoughts, additional information? Please feel free to ask &/or post.


  • Oregon AKA for Kratom

    Let me see if understand so far..
    1. The 3 strain colors act as categories
    2. Under each of the colors would be strains within that color(category)
    3. Under each strain it would be a varietal (what country/district or micoclime)
    4. Then under that would be for lack of a better word "specials" leaf only, vein&leaf, stem&vein, milling grade, aging, blends etc



  • For beginners m. Speciosa (kratom) can be overwhelming. The best thing to do is to buy some samples and run through your rounds of experiments. The problem is with samples is the likelihood of being able to source that “EXACT” same sample/batch for most vendors would be impossiuas vendors cycle their product quick….
    But to keep thing simple right now.....IME I like grabbing some samples just to see what strain and colors “click” with my specific chemistry.. once I knew I’m more of a “green”vein sorta person I tend to hunt down mid range greens as whites are not my thing and reds are my thing but typically at night...

    Not to further confuse anyone.... don’t get hung up to much on colors! Lol. I’ve had very uplifting and energizing reds and low range whites.... it’s part of the fun I suppose!

    Overall I stick with greens and reds...


  • Oregon AKA for Kratom

    Do you believe the varietal aspect has any play in the matter or is it just marketing or style points. In wine, coffee and other botanicals the area and soil of that micro-clime has a marked effect on the profile of the product. The terroir. Or is the turn over so great and the batches so mishmash that it is moot. If the weather and rainfall and terroir of some years makes a great batch will that not set a increases desire and value…will we see or is it valid to have in the future 2016 Thai red vein maeng da Kha Sook valley?



  • It’s both imo.. just like wine, soil, temperature, rain, sun, etc will definitely effect characteristics from what I told. Also vendor marketing is HUGE! nobody really knows what your getting that’s why it’s imporant to have trustworthy vendors.l.

    I can recommend some but I’d need to check out the rules. Let me follow up with the moderator..


  • administrator

    @'Rob83':

    For beginners m. Speciosa (kratom) can be overwhelming. The best thing to do is to buy some samples and run through your rounds of experiments. The problem is with samples is the likelihood of being able to source that “EXACT” same sample/batch for most vendors would be impossiuas vendors cycle their product quick….
    But to keep thing simple right now.....IME I like grabbing some samples just to see what strain and colors “click” with my specific chemistry.. once I knew I’m more of a “green”vein sorta person I tend to hunt down mid range greens as whites are not my thing and reds are my thing but typically at night...

    Not to further confuse anyone.... don’t get hung up to much on colors! Lol. I’ve had very uplifting and energizing reds and low range whites.... it’s part of the fun I suppose!

    Overall I stick with greens and reds...


    You nailed it Rob! When I started out I was pretty much Greens all the way, usually Bali's & Malays. Not terribly imaginative, I know. After taking a few years break (from kratom), I came back & wow, the selection of strains & even colors had gone crazy in my absence. My confusion was almost more paralyzing than the anxiety that brought back to kratom! So, I did exactly as Rob suggests in his post & spent several months sampling just to find what worked with me & the anxiety I was taming with kratom. As a back-up during my initial sampling I purchased a good solid old friend, Green Malay. As a result I have ended up with several strains, favorite strains that I would never have thought to even try my first go-round with kratom. I still ride the samples merry-go-round because colors & strains can change from batch to batch nearly as much as they change from vendor to vendor. Besides, just like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get … until you try it.
    And yes, I did just say that   😛
      
    My point? Take all the "rules" regarding colors & strains as extremely general, a very rough guide. And, as Rob so wisely suggested, sample, sample & keep on sampling because with kratom you really won't know until you try it.



  • @'TheAegis':

    Do you believe the varietal aspect has any play in the matter or is it just marketing or style points. In wine, coffee and other botanicals the area and soil of that micro-clime has a marked effect on the profile of the product. The terroir. Or is the turn over so great and the batches so mishmash that it is moot. If the weather and rainfall and terroir of some years makes a great batch will that not set a increases desire and value…will we see or is it valid to have  in the future 2016 Thai red vein maeng da Kha Sook valley?

    The different veins for sure have almost drastic differences if you have real good, legit Kratom.
    For example My green is very zippy, nice euphoria, long legs and perfect for a morning start.
    Now my plain Red vein has around the same euphoria but is extremely relaxing and best to take when done work or just wanting to hit the hay.
    Now my red horn has a bit of everything it's nice and zippy at first then around 3 or 4 hours later the relaxing effect comes in.
    My yellow is very relaxing. No noticeable euphoria, no up effect but works the best for high anxiety with none of the other pleasurable effects Kratom can have.

    Now anyone trying the strains listed above would notice the difference. It's really impossible not to if you have good legit Kratom.
    Maeng Da is just a catch all name for normally a company best Kratom. The name is so over used I stop using it.
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    Here's another point that I feel should be brought to the attention in this forum.
    It concerns Extracts! In all cases when spoken about and especially in public forums the use of Extract imo should be avoided and for sure not promoted. No one ever needs to use a extract if you have good Kratom. This extract thingy can be a pathway of letting the FDA in.
    Also if you don't know this any Extract or resin of Kratom is outlawed in Indonesia. Any vendor that is willing to send you a extract from overseas should be avoided, they are breaking a very strict law and if they do this what else could they be doing to your Kratom.

    Most of the good, very potent extracts are made here in the US, however some very strong ones are made in China.
    Anyhow had a few mins and wanted to contribute a bit.
    Have a great day! 🙂

    p.s. I realized I am new here and may be bring up topics you have already covered at length, if that is the case for example with my extract comments , I'm sorry.
    I am personally put off by Extracts, even the decent ones such OPMS, and the Gold standard there is never a need for these. Matter of fact if you are using my Kratom you would not even think of using a extract. I may be wrong but my feelings is many Kratom users are not getting good fresh , potent Kratom and they use a extract to boost it up. Now some would disagree with me, as a matter of fact I have a very old friend a guy that was really responsible of bring Kratom to this country many many years ago. I won't mention his name lets call him Mr. E.
    He makes probably the very best extracts you will ever find backed by over 30 years of R and D. But it's not ever necessary. He also sells raw Kratom 2 of his websites are now closed down to the public only previous buyers can used them but here's the funny thing as good as this guy is my raw Kratom is better. I think part of this is due to freshness. When I buy my Kratom it is picked, dried(out of the sun) and processed all at the same time so when it gets to me it's very fresh, it also looks like you getting less as the volume is smaller because of the weight of being fresh. It's like a tablespoon of flour will weigh several grams less that one of sugar. Anyways I guess I'm a bit of a  rambler so I will stop.

    ETA: Please read the House Rules. In particular, #13 regarding the use of drug terms.

    As for extracts;_ I am pleased to inform you that we are in agreement, as per Rule#10.   
    "AKA does not promote or recommend the use of extracts, enriched leaf or enhanced leaf" _


  • CTO

    I've got some interesting thoughts on this. Lets just say i've seen every colour vein turn red and purple during intense growth (periods of high sun and lots of water), and the same trees display green or white veins during the height of the dry or cool season. It's not dissimilar from the intense growth periods i've seen in many other plants.



  • @'will':

    I've got some interesting thoughts on this. Lets just say i've seen every colour vein turn red and purple during intense growth (periods of high sun and lots of water), and the same trees display green or white veins during the height of the dry or cool season.

    Well this is true also but if the pickers know there job they are picking from different species of trees.
    If you examine the actual leaf you will see a noticeable difference in the formations.
    Example you try my Red it tastes nothing like a green, actually the taste is not at all bitter and I kind of like it, for sure it's a very different tree.
    This is the important part of it and your correct you cannot just go by color.


  • CTO

    I do agree that there is a different in the chemical makeup during different growing periods, and one can learn to tune into a desired profile. I've got trees with all different types of names. They all produce a similar shaped leaf; maybe branch a little different. Additionally some tips are more horned than others, but in general every single leaf harvested recently was what i would call a red vein (based on it's effectiveness at nullifying pain), despite coming from Rifats, bumble bees, PVI, and RVI.

    Another interesting variable is the drying process. Depending on sun drying or air dry the colour and the taste of the leaf can be radically different, even from the same batch of leaf. This is of course my subjective experience no where near it's natural habitat. Un



  • @'will':

    I do agree that there is a different in the chemical makeup during different growing periods. I've got trees with all different types of names. They all produce a similar shaped leaf; maybe branch a little different. Additionally some tips are more horned than others, but in general every single leaf harvested recently was what i would call a red vein (based on it's effectiveness at nullifying pain), despite coming from Rifats, bumble bees, PVI, and RVI.

    Another interesting variable is the drying process. Depending on sun drying or air dry the colour and the taste of the leaf can be radically different, even from the same batch of leaf. This is of course my subjective experience no where near it's natural habitat.

    How would you describe the “aromas” between these 4-5 different named strains? Similar? Different?



  • @'will':

    I do agree that there is a different in the chemical makeup during different growing periods, and one can learn to tune into a desired profile. I've got trees with all different types of names. They all produce a similar shaped leaf; maybe branch a little different. Additionally some tips are more horned than others, but in general every single leaf harvested recently was what i would call a red vein (based on it's effectiveness at nullifying pain), despite coming from Rifats, bumble bees, PVI, and RVI.

    Another interesting variable is the drying process. Depending on sun drying or air dry the colour and the taste of the leaf can be radically different, even from the same batch of leaf. This is of course my subjective experience no where near it's natural habitat. Un

    Will where are you located at?
    How far South are you?
    Your Latitude? For example Indonesia is almost on the Equator
    Wow you live in Seattle WA! Must be near the Olympia rain-forest area? I live in Spokane much much colder here growing Kratom out of the question.
    The more rain and wet your area is the better your Kratom will be.
    As a matter of fact a lot of my Kratom comes from a lake area called Jong Kong the trees are in several feet of water! They love it and it makes a very potent Kratom


  • Oregon AKA for Kratom

    @'will':

    I do agree that there is a different in the chemical makeup during different growing periods, and one can learn to tune into a desired profile. I've got trees with all different types of names. They all produce a similar shaped leaf; maybe branch a little different. Additionally some tips are more horned than others, but in general every single leaf harvested recently was what i would call a red vein (based on it's effectiveness at nullifying pain), despite coming from Rifats, bumble bees, PVI, and RVI.

    Another interesting variable is the drying process. Depending on sun drying or air dry the colour and the taste of the leaf can be radically different, even from the same batch of leaf. This is of course my subjective experience no where near it's natural habitat. Un

    By sun drying with high uv and the presence of heavy phyto chemicals as well as exposure to oxygen at the same time will (as studies show) increase the presence of the 7-OH. The oxidation from another alkaloid to 7-OH may be why the taste and effects are radically different. Alkaloids are responsible for much of what we think of as bitterness or burning sensation in many plants



  • @'TheAegis':

    @'will':

    I do agree that there is a different in the chemical makeup during different growing periods, and one can learn to tune into a desired profile. I've got trees with all different types of names. They all produce a similar shaped leaf; maybe branch a little different. Additionally some tips are more horned than others, but in general every single leaf harvested recently was what i would call a red vein (based on it's effectiveness at nullifying pain), despite coming from Rifats, bumble bees, PVI, and RVI.

    Another interesting variable is the drying process. Depending on sun drying or air dry the colour and the taste of the leaf can be radically different, even from the same batch of leaf. This is of course my subjective experience no where near it's natural habitat. Un

    By sun drying with high uv and the presence of heavy phyto chemicals as well as exposure to oxygen at the same time will (as studies show) increase the presence of the 7-OH. The oxidation from another alkaloid to 7-OH may be why the taste and effects are radically different. Alkaloids are responsible for much of what we think of as bitterness or burning sensation in many plants

    Yeah I read that study sometime ago but I don't agree with it. I will tell you why. The guy that process my Kratom is also the farmer and one of the pickers. H swears that sun drying cuts down on the potency and is one of the reasons why his Kratom is so good, and it is very good. 7-OH is in such very small amounts to begin with so it may be true but certainly not noticeable to yield a more potent Kratom.
    This guy has worked with Kratom for 20 years and he knows his trade.


  • administrator

    @'will':

    I've got some interesting thoughts on this. Lets just say i've seen every colour vein turn red and purple during intense growth (periods of high sun and lots of water), and the same trees display green or white veins during the height of the dry or cool season. It's not dissimilar from the intense growth periods i've seen in many other plants.

    All these years & I did not know this, Will. So, focusing on only the central vein color characteristic it is feasible to get White Vein, Green Vein & Red Vein from the same tree; depending on the environmental conditions at the time they are mature enough to harvest. While I am guessing it is not common or even all that likely, it is still feasible nonetheless?

    @'will':

    I do agree that there is a different in the chemical makeup during different growing periods, and one can learn to tune into a desired profile. I've got trees with all different types of names. They all produce a similar shaped leaf; maybe branch a little different. Additionally some tips are more horned than others, but in general every single leaf harvested recently was what i would call a red vein (based on it's effectiveness at nullifying pain), despite coming from Rifats, bumble bees, PVI, and RVI.

    Another interesting variable is the drying process. Depending on sun drying or air dry the colour and the taste of the leaf can be radically different, even from the same batch of leaf. This is of course my subjective experience no where near it's natural habitat. Un

    This I have from several knowledgeable people that I believe you know, Will (Jon & Ethan). It's definitely a group consensus on this point.

    Now, correct me if I am wrong; it's my understanding that the yellows, oranges & golds are products of varying drying processes. In fact, I did hear but didn't care enough to fact-check, yellows came about by a fermenting during the drying process. Something about some farmers piling the newly harvested leaves on the ground, covered & protected from the sun which causes the leaves to ferment. Any truth to that story?

    I must say that all of these new colors came about while I was taking my "break" from kratom so I was stunned when I came back & saw all the color variations & crazy-new strain names. It was quite an adventure navigating all the new stuff!



  • I always thought the names and colors were getting excessive. On the flip side I started to look at mitragyna like wines sure there’s different types of grapes but if you took the same grape seed and planted it in 10 different regions I’d bet you’d get 10 uniquely different but similar profiles



  • @'itzatwist':

    @'will':

    I've got some interesting thoughts on this. Lets just say i've seen every colour vein turn red and purple during intense growth (periods of high sun and lots of water), and the same trees display green or white veins during the height of the dry or cool season. It's not dissimilar from the intense growth periods i've seen in many other plants.

    All these years & I did not know this, Will. So, focusing on only the central vein color characteristic it is feasible to get White Vein, Green Vein & Red Vein from the same tree; depending on the environmental conditions at the time they are mature enough to harvest. While I am guessing it is not common or even all that likely, it is still feasible nonetheless?

    No they are not from the same tree. There is no such thing in just one Kratom tree. It's all different and Maeng Da is very real it's not what vendors call pimp grade or just good Kratom it's a different kind of Kratom.
    What Will was saying is he planted some trees likely from the same species   but what he has noticed is the color changes from season to season. This happens but it is Not what is meant by the different veins. Will most likely has a single Kratom strain and he noticed the leaf color change.


  • CTO

    @'randy1953':

    No they are not from the same tree. There is no such thing in just one Kratom tree. It's all different and Maeng Da is very real it's not what vendors call pimp grade or just good Kratom it's a different kind of Kratom.
    What Will was saying is he planted some trees likely from the same species   but what he has noticed is the color changes from season to season. This happens but it is Not what is meant by the different veins. Will most likely has a single Kratom strain and he noticed the leaf color change.

    I believe this requires further discussion. I have multiple trees from multiple sources, but it isn't like they grow with labels. Taxonomy is a very human reaction in a very unhuman world. I'll take some more recent pictures but you can absolutely find all the colours on a single tree. The white or green vein is usually the older leaf or covered by bigger, and branches that show that heavy purples and red while growing. Like I said earlier, i've never seen them in their natural habitat (plus i'm colourblind so take anything i say with a pinch of salt) so it's entirely possible we are both on to something.

    Also these trees were grown in the deep south. Anywhere that is meditated by either the gulf stream or the gulf of mexico supports micro climates that seem favourable.



  • @'will':

    @'randy1953':

    No they are not from the same tree. There is no such thing in just one Kratom tree. It's all different and Maeng Da is very real it's not what vendors call pimp grade or just good Kratom it's a different kind of Kratom.
    What Will was saying is he planted some trees likely from the same species   but what he has noticed is the color changes from season to season. This happens but it is Not what is meant by the different veins. Will most likely has a single Kratom strain and he noticed the leaf color change.

    I believe this requires further discussion. I have multiple trees from multiple sources, but it isn't like they grow with labels. Taxonomy is a very human reaction in a very unhuman world. I'll take some more recent pictures but you can absolutely find all the colours on a single tree. The white or green vein is usually the older leaf or covered by bigger, and branches that show that heavy purples and red while growing. Like I said earlier, i've never seen them in their natural habitat (plus i'm colourblind so take anything i say with a pinch of salt) so it's entirely possible we are both on to something.

    Also these trees were grown in the deep south. Anywhere that is meditated by either the gulf stream or the gulf of mexico supports micro climates that seem favourable.

    Yeah I hear you all I am saying is there are for sure different types of Kratom. For example there is a real Maeng DA the leaf is always horned etc. My red comes directly from a certain tree that always yields red..now not sure what more to say. I am not at all discounting what you are seeing just making a point there are different types of Kratom trees.


  • CTO

    That's true. I have a horned leaf too (PVI and RVI) seem to both horn up. I feel like the vein colours do represent the profile of the leaf, but that you can get red from a green and vice versa depending on the season. It still blows my mind, how little we do know.



  • @'will':

    That's true. I have a horned leaf too (PVI and RVI) seem to both horn up. I feel like the vein colours do represent the profile of the leaf, but that you can get red from a green and vice versa depending on the season. It still blows my mind, how little we do know.

    It's true Kratom is a very unusual plant for sure. The pickers for sure know. My Kratom is always the same, the green, the red, the red horn, the white, my red bali etc. The key is to try the green that was a red and see for yourself if there is a very noticeable difference in the effects?


  • CTO

    That's a great question. If i wasn't to put much thought into it i'd say yes, but the truth is it all kind of feels like red vein to me (from my trees). Then again i've got white or greens through vendors in the past and it feels nothing like a red.  It's possible i just default to reds or because we blend all the leaf it evens out. If you want to try yourself shoot me an address to send some leaf to.

    It wasn't always this way. For years the leaf just kind of gave me a headache. Wasn't until lit started flowering for literally years on end did it begin to rival the best reds.



  • @'will':

    That's a great question. If i wasn't to put much thought into it i'd say yes, but the truth is it all kind of feels like red vein to me (from my trees). Then again i've got white or greens through vendors in the past and it feels nothing like a red.  It's possible i just default to reds or because we blend all the leaf it evens out. If you want to try yourself shoot me an address to send some leaf to.

    It wasn't always this way. For years the leaf just kind of gave me a headache. Wasn't until lit started flowering for literally years on end did it begin to rival the best reds.

    Have you ever entertain the thought that all your trees may be from a red strain and the color change is a color change. Because I will tell you if I send you a sample of my green and red you will for sure see a great difference.

    Sent you a pm


  • CTO

    It is possible, and if it is the case. No complaints from me. I know that rifats etc aren't considered reds and i seeked them out, they grow like telephone polls while the other trees are much more bushy. It could just be the environment though.



  • I notice in other growing plants as well,  Maturity plays a key role in color generation within the plant itself.   I can easily envision, any plant, when it is young (early in the season) not showing its true colors.  Any leaf typically leaf, may appear to have veins of white, yellow, or green when it is premature.  I would imagine late in the season, more of the plant would look similar or the same.

    Lets look at some trees early in the season.  They all look green, but as the light cycle shortens we see trees of the same type look more alike in the fall.  Oak trees look like oak trees, Pine trees look like pine trees, etc.
     Now that being said, I can imagine certain plants having distinctly different characteristics when they are mature.  Distinctly Red veins, fat and healthy, on one side of the plant/tree and veins on that same tree of mature growth also white, thick and healthy.
    I think it is important to distinguish mature white vein kratom from immature white vein kratom (all immature kratom veins may appear white, or green, regardless what they will look like when they are mature.

    If you can jump on the logic train for a second with me, and it will take some faith to jump on, It would be rarity to see one, but not the other.  When we did see typically red vein mature kratom, it would be rare to find a different color vein growing in the same plant cluster.  When we did, then it makes sense to scratch our head and say hmmmm.   how did this happen.

    Let's not forget this grows wild in the jungle, along rivers and streams, some clean, some not.  Environmental factors including wild life in the area, nitrogen rich soil because of this wild life.  Finally, maybe I missed this, but, I didn't see mention of plant sex.  Is it possible to have red and white vein on same plant? sure.  On the same mature plant? not nearly as likely but still possible.  Why is it 2 colors on the same mature plant?  could be a number of reasons including environmentally influenced factors, genetic mutation due to said factors, and plant sex possibly.   Oh… don't google kratom plant sex.

    Did I hear there might be a farm  member