Kratom Vein Colors


  • Oregon AKA for Kratom

    @'will':

    I do agree that there is a different in the chemical makeup during different growing periods, and one can learn to tune into a desired profile. I've got trees with all different types of names. They all produce a similar shaped leaf; maybe branch a little different. Additionally some tips are more horned than others, but in general every single leaf harvested recently was what i would call a red vein (based on it's effectiveness at nullifying pain), despite coming from Rifats, bumble bees, PVI, and RVI.

    Another interesting variable is the drying process. Depending on sun drying or air dry the colour and the taste of the leaf can be radically different, even from the same batch of leaf. This is of course my subjective experience no where near it's natural habitat. Un

    By sun drying with high uv and the presence of heavy phyto chemicals as well as exposure to oxygen at the same time will (as studies show) increase the presence of the 7-OH. The oxidation from another alkaloid to 7-OH may be why the taste and effects are radically different. Alkaloids are responsible for much of what we think of as bitterness or burning sensation in many plants



  • @'TheAegis':

    @'will':

    I do agree that there is a different in the chemical makeup during different growing periods, and one can learn to tune into a desired profile. I've got trees with all different types of names. They all produce a similar shaped leaf; maybe branch a little different. Additionally some tips are more horned than others, but in general every single leaf harvested recently was what i would call a red vein (based on it's effectiveness at nullifying pain), despite coming from Rifats, bumble bees, PVI, and RVI.

    Another interesting variable is the drying process. Depending on sun drying or air dry the colour and the taste of the leaf can be radically different, even from the same batch of leaf. This is of course my subjective experience no where near it's natural habitat. Un

    By sun drying with high uv and the presence of heavy phyto chemicals as well as exposure to oxygen at the same time will (as studies show) increase the presence of the 7-OH. The oxidation from another alkaloid to 7-OH may be why the taste and effects are radically different. Alkaloids are responsible for much of what we think of as bitterness or burning sensation in many plants

    Yeah I read that study sometime ago but I don't agree with it. I will tell you why. The guy that process my Kratom is also the farmer and one of the pickers. H swears that sun drying cuts down on the potency and is one of the reasons why his Kratom is so good, and it is very good. 7-OH is in such very small amounts to begin with so it may be true but certainly not noticeable to yield a more potent Kratom.
    This guy has worked with Kratom for 20 years and he knows his trade.


  • administrator

    @'will':

    I've got some interesting thoughts on this. Lets just say i've seen every colour vein turn red and purple during intense growth (periods of high sun and lots of water), and the same trees display green or white veins during the height of the dry or cool season. It's not dissimilar from the intense growth periods i've seen in many other plants.

    All these years & I did not know this, Will. So, focusing on only the central vein color characteristic it is feasible to get White Vein, Green Vein & Red Vein from the same tree; depending on the environmental conditions at the time they are mature enough to harvest. While I am guessing it is not common or even all that likely, it is still feasible nonetheless?

    @'will':

    I do agree that there is a different in the chemical makeup during different growing periods, and one can learn to tune into a desired profile. I've got trees with all different types of names. They all produce a similar shaped leaf; maybe branch a little different. Additionally some tips are more horned than others, but in general every single leaf harvested recently was what i would call a red vein (based on it's effectiveness at nullifying pain), despite coming from Rifats, bumble bees, PVI, and RVI.

    Another interesting variable is the drying process. Depending on sun drying or air dry the colour and the taste of the leaf can be radically different, even from the same batch of leaf. This is of course my subjective experience no where near it's natural habitat. Un

    This I have from several knowledgeable people that I believe you know, Will (Jon & Ethan). It's definitely a group consensus on this point.

    Now, correct me if I am wrong; it's my understanding that the yellows, oranges & golds are products of varying drying processes. In fact, I did hear but didn't care enough to fact-check, yellows came about by a fermenting during the drying process. Something about some farmers piling the newly harvested leaves on the ground, covered & protected from the sun which causes the leaves to ferment. Any truth to that story?

    I must say that all of these new colors came about while I was taking my "break" from kratom so I was stunned when I came back & saw all the color variations & crazy-new strain names. It was quite an adventure navigating all the new stuff!



  • I always thought the names and colors were getting excessive. On the flip side I started to look at mitragyna like wines sure there’s different types of grapes but if you took the same grape seed and planted it in 10 different regions I’d bet you’d get 10 uniquely different but similar profiles



  • @'itzatwist':

    @'will':

    I've got some interesting thoughts on this. Lets just say i've seen every colour vein turn red and purple during intense growth (periods of high sun and lots of water), and the same trees display green or white veins during the height of the dry or cool season. It's not dissimilar from the intense growth periods i've seen in many other plants.

    All these years & I did not know this, Will. So, focusing on only the central vein color characteristic it is feasible to get White Vein, Green Vein & Red Vein from the same tree; depending on the environmental conditions at the time they are mature enough to harvest. While I am guessing it is not common or even all that likely, it is still feasible nonetheless?

    No they are not from the same tree. There is no such thing in just one Kratom tree. It's all different and Maeng Da is very real it's not what vendors call pimp grade or just good Kratom it's a different kind of Kratom.
    What Will was saying is he planted some trees likely from the same species   but what he has noticed is the color changes from season to season. This happens but it is Not what is meant by the different veins. Will most likely has a single Kratom strain and he noticed the leaf color change.


  • CTO

    @'randy1953':

    No they are not from the same tree. There is no such thing in just one Kratom tree. It's all different and Maeng Da is very real it's not what vendors call pimp grade or just good Kratom it's a different kind of Kratom.
    What Will was saying is he planted some trees likely from the same species   but what he has noticed is the color changes from season to season. This happens but it is Not what is meant by the different veins. Will most likely has a single Kratom strain and he noticed the leaf color change.

    I believe this requires further discussion. I have multiple trees from multiple sources, but it isn't like they grow with labels. Taxonomy is a very human reaction in a very unhuman world. I'll take some more recent pictures but you can absolutely find all the colours on a single tree. The white or green vein is usually the older leaf or covered by bigger, and branches that show that heavy purples and red while growing. Like I said earlier, i've never seen them in their natural habitat (plus i'm colourblind so take anything i say with a pinch of salt) so it's entirely possible we are both on to something.

    Also these trees were grown in the deep south. Anywhere that is meditated by either the gulf stream or the gulf of mexico supports micro climates that seem favourable.



  • @'will':

    @'randy1953':

    No they are not from the same tree. There is no such thing in just one Kratom tree. It's all different and Maeng Da is very real it's not what vendors call pimp grade or just good Kratom it's a different kind of Kratom.
    What Will was saying is he planted some trees likely from the same species   but what he has noticed is the color changes from season to season. This happens but it is Not what is meant by the different veins. Will most likely has a single Kratom strain and he noticed the leaf color change.

    I believe this requires further discussion. I have multiple trees from multiple sources, but it isn't like they grow with labels. Taxonomy is a very human reaction in a very unhuman world. I'll take some more recent pictures but you can absolutely find all the colours on a single tree. The white or green vein is usually the older leaf or covered by bigger, and branches that show that heavy purples and red while growing. Like I said earlier, i've never seen them in their natural habitat (plus i'm colourblind so take anything i say with a pinch of salt) so it's entirely possible we are both on to something.

    Also these trees were grown in the deep south. Anywhere that is meditated by either the gulf stream or the gulf of mexico supports micro climates that seem favourable.

    Yeah I hear you all I am saying is there are for sure different types of Kratom. For example there is a real Maeng DA the leaf is always horned etc. My red comes directly from a certain tree that always yields red..now not sure what more to say. I am not at all discounting what you are seeing just making a point there are different types of Kratom trees.


  • CTO

    That's true. I have a horned leaf too (PVI and RVI) seem to both horn up. I feel like the vein colours do represent the profile of the leaf, but that you can get red from a green and vice versa depending on the season. It still blows my mind, how little we do know.



  • @'will':

    That's true. I have a horned leaf too (PVI and RVI) seem to both horn up. I feel like the vein colours do represent the profile of the leaf, but that you can get red from a green and vice versa depending on the season. It still blows my mind, how little we do know.

    It's true Kratom is a very unusual plant for sure. The pickers for sure know. My Kratom is always the same, the green, the red, the red horn, the white, my red bali etc. The key is to try the green that was a red and see for yourself if there is a very noticeable difference in the effects?


  • CTO

    That's a great question. If i wasn't to put much thought into it i'd say yes, but the truth is it all kind of feels like red vein to me (from my trees). Then again i've got white or greens through vendors in the past and it feels nothing like a red.  It's possible i just default to reds or because we blend all the leaf it evens out. If you want to try yourself shoot me an address to send some leaf to.

    It wasn't always this way. For years the leaf just kind of gave me a headache. Wasn't until lit started flowering for literally years on end did it begin to rival the best reds.



  • @'will':

    That's a great question. If i wasn't to put much thought into it i'd say yes, but the truth is it all kind of feels like red vein to me (from my trees). Then again i've got white or greens through vendors in the past and it feels nothing like a red.  It's possible i just default to reds or because we blend all the leaf it evens out. If you want to try yourself shoot me an address to send some leaf to.

    It wasn't always this way. For years the leaf just kind of gave me a headache. Wasn't until lit started flowering for literally years on end did it begin to rival the best reds.

    Have you ever entertain the thought that all your trees may be from a red strain and the color change is a color change. Because I will tell you if I send you a sample of my green and red you will for sure see a great difference.

    Sent you a pm


  • CTO

    It is possible, and if it is the case. No complaints from me. I know that rifats etc aren't considered reds and i seeked them out, they grow like telephone polls while the other trees are much more bushy. It could just be the environment though.



  • I notice in other growing plants as well,  Maturity plays a key role in color generation within the plant itself.   I can easily envision, any plant, when it is young (early in the season) not showing its true colors.  Any leaf typically leaf, may appear to have veins of white, yellow, or green when it is premature.  I would imagine late in the season, more of the plant would look similar or the same.

    Lets look at some trees early in the season.  They all look green, but as the light cycle shortens we see trees of the same type look more alike in the fall.  Oak trees look like oak trees, Pine trees look like pine trees, etc.
     Now that being said, I can imagine certain plants having distinctly different characteristics when they are mature.  Distinctly Red veins, fat and healthy, on one side of the plant/tree and veins on that same tree of mature growth also white, thick and healthy.
    I think it is important to distinguish mature white vein kratom from immature white vein kratom (all immature kratom veins may appear white, or green, regardless what they will look like when they are mature.

    If you can jump on the logic train for a second with me, and it will take some faith to jump on, It would be rarity to see one, but not the other.  When we did see typically red vein mature kratom, it would be rare to find a different color vein growing in the same plant cluster.  When we did, then it makes sense to scratch our head and say hmmmm.   how did this happen.

    Let's not forget this grows wild in the jungle, along rivers and streams, some clean, some not.  Environmental factors including wild life in the area, nitrogen rich soil because of this wild life.  Finally, maybe I missed this, but, I didn't see mention of plant sex.  Is it possible to have red and white vein on same plant? sure.  On the same mature plant? not nearly as likely but still possible.  Why is it 2 colors on the same mature plant?  could be a number of reasons including environmentally influenced factors, genetic mutation due to said factors, and plant sex possibly.   Oh… don't google kratom plant sex.

    Did I hear there might be a farm  member